Sparx Systems Forum
Enterprise Architect => General Board => Topic started by: jeshaw2 on March 15, 2008, 11:36:41 pm
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Where is the documentation on this subject? Closest thing I could find was polls under the category button, but I can't find that either. :-/
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Your post was not helpful, so I should press No, shouldn't I?
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Posting a Poll
If you have a question you would like to ask this community, YaBB gives you the ability to create a poll along with your topic. This is a fantastic way to get a good idea of what this community feels about your question. To post a poll, find the button titled "Start New Poll" from the category view and click it. The exact location of this button will vary depending on which template is being used, but it is often near the top of the list of topics. On this special post page, type in your question and options in the respectively labeled box, then fill out your message as described above.
This is from the help (now your post became helpful).
But: Where is this "Start New Poll"
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Your post was not helpful, so I should press No, shouldn't I?
The only "no" button I can see is yours. Are you seeing a "no" button on my post, or are you suggesting that you click your own "no" button?
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Where is this "Start New Poll"
I'm not even sure that the thumbs are related to polls! :-/ Nor do I see the "Start New Poll" button.
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Folks, [Jim and AB primarily]
FWIW...
We each see the buttons on others' posts, not our own.
There is a list of one template provided by Sparx. We get to choose freely from that one.
I suspect without proof that the "poll" is created automatically for each thread, or even each post.
Some time ago I mentioned this to Sparx, wanting to know (as did some others) what the new system was all about. I received something very much along the lines of what we all see in: http://www.sparxsystems.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1203302854.
A while ago - I gave the change some time to 'percolate' the only mentions of "karma" on the entire Sparx site where the post referenced above and my question. I have not searched since, having no remaining interest in getting involved further.
David
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We each see the buttons on others' posts, not our own.
That makes sense. So, where does one go the see the results of the Yes and No votes?
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You have to 'thank' your lucky stars, at least I think that's how it works.
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My first answer was a bit sarcastic, but the point was: who should I vote negative and why? There is only one person with vanishing karma and I honestly do not understand why because the posts of this person are one of the most valuable in this forum. So it must have been voted negative (I assume). But by whom? Operators? The karma seems to rise very slowly. Is it falling very fast? Obscure :-?
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I too find it a bit of a mystery. The case you site makes it even more so.
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The 'Start New Poll' function has currently been restricted to Admin users only, but this is not relevant to the 'Was I helpful?' buttons. These are in effect a silent and anonymous poll that records the difference between 'Yes' and 'No' across all posts a user has made. I was told that it takes 500 x 'No' to get to 0 stars, and 500 x 'Yes' to get to 5 stars. I did run a test when on this before upgrading this forum and it did work in the right direction. You see the results only in the star ranking.
Two of you have said that you find it odd that one very helpful person is losing karma. So, say that yes his posts are helpful.
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So, how does one see a karma score other than by the crude mechanism of looking at the stars?
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So, how does one see a karma score other than by the crude mechanism of looking at the stars?
You see the results only in the star ranking.
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Perhaps don't think of it as a score, but (like Karma itself) some general indication of the overall appreciation of the contributor by the forum community.
The flaw with the previous star system was that a person could become an EA Guru simply by posting lots of unhelpful new items (although I do point out that all the forum members with the highest scores are actually true gurus and much valued). More significantly, an infrequent but highly gifted contributor could post a suggestion that helps the entire user community whilst retaining the somewhat belittling epithet of "EA Newbie".
The new system is more representative, with the true gurus gaining karma value and 'starshine' regardless of the frequency of their postings. (With some 13,000 forum members, a truely helpful person could easily get 500 good hits on just one posting, if everyone used the system.)
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Perhaps don't think of it as a score, but (like Karma itself) some general indication of the overall appreciation of the contributor by the forum community.
The flaw with the previous star system was that a person could become an EA Guru simply by posting lots of unhelpful new items (although I do point out that all the forum members with the highest scores are actually true gurus and much valued). More significantly, an infrequent but highly gifted contributor could post a suggestion that helps the entire user community whilst retaining the somewhat belittling epithet of "EA Newbie".
The new system is more representative, with the true gurus gaining karma value and 'starshine' regardless of the frequency of their postings. (With some 13,000 forum members, a truely helpful person could easily get 500 good hits on just one posting, if everyone used the system.)
I wonder how many of the members know this? I know that I did not understand Karma nor Starshine in this forum's context nor the importance of voting Yes or No to help one to ascertain a level of credibility in advice received from others in the forum.
As Paolo says: Consistency, Consistency, Consistency;
I say: Communicate, Communicate, Communicate.
How do we get the word out on this? :-/
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I wonder how many of the members know this? I know that I did not understand Karma nor Starshine in this forum's context nor the importance of voting Yes or No to help one to ascertain a level of credibility in advice received from others in the forum.
As Paolo says: Consistency, Consistency, Consistency;
I say: Communicate, Communicate, Communicate.
How do we get the word out on this? :-/
Well Jim (et al),
See my posts above for some opinions on the level of awareness and information that's been made available to date. Jim and Thomas (M-H), you've shaken loose more than has been said since the new system started.
As to the parenthetical comment in Roy's second last paragraph - please keep in mind that this is a [i[personal[/i] opinion - I really had not noticed any evidence of this in the discussions I had with Sparx on this matter. Make of that what you may; I decided to read it as indifference, and respond in kind.
David
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And, perhaps more to the point ... how does one get people to care enough to bother to record a vote. The virtue of the prior system was that it required no effort on the part of anyone. While it may not have been a true measure of merit, it did at least give one some sense of who has been around and contributing. The new system has two big flaws, despite its seeming virtue of being merit based. One is that people just don't consistently bother to register a vote. The other is that it is subject to abuse. If one person gets ticked off at another person, it is very easy to simply register a negative vote on every post for no particular reason. Perhaps that is what is happening with that regular poster that was mentioned. If such a person is consistent, their votes are likely to accumulate significantly compared to the apathetic responses of others.
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exactly! My thoughts too Thomas..
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Does that mean that I got a positive vote? :)
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Yes, and Jim too. At least from me.
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I can't say that I can detect any more glow...
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Perhaps it is all internal, as in to "feel a warm glow." My guess it is more like the old joke about a dark suit.
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Well, they have one thing under control. Even though you made several posts (in this thread) to which I tried to vote Yes, I got a message that I must wait 60+ mins before I give you another vote.
As far as seeing increased stare shine, you need a higher resolution monitor I think. Looks like like the range is ( -500 or 0? ) to 500; one vote won't do much I think.
I think I'll not let my star shine be a factor in my self worth anymore. With 2.5 stars, I've faded from guru to average. Nor will I let it be a source of pride and reward for participating in the forum either. Instead, I'll measure the value that Sparx places on my contributions by the number of my recomendations and requests they implement within their product (which in two years here, hasn't been much).
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Well, given that I am running at 1856x1392 now, I'm not sure what kind of monitor I would need!
And yeah, with a range like that, an indicator with only 5 lights isn't going to show much.
Frankly, neither the old system or the new one has a lot to do with worth. I've noticed on other boards that have some kind of karma mechanism that a lot of the votes which get made seem to come from newbies asking simple questions who then reward the person who gives them the simple answer. But, the person who raises some important thorny question or who participates in such a discussion, never gets the vote.
Doesn't mean that it isn't clear to anyone who hangs around for a while who the real stars are.
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I agree with both of you. But Jim's point is well taken. It can be a real pain to put something into a forum such as this long enough to be recognized, then to (effectively) start over.
As one of the other posts in this thread indicated there is another frequent poster who seems to have gotten a particularly raw deal from this 'improvement.' And yet few have done as much to move the quality of EA forward. Somehow this does not send the right signal.
David
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The startover aspect is certainly problematic. While it might be "fair" going forward because it starts us all equally, it is unfair in that it discards years of contributions.
Instead of considering 2.5 stars as neutral, it might have been more appropriate to think in terms of 1 to 5 stars with the starting point being zero. Then, one might have translated the old categories into stars as a starting point. Then, one could get positive and negative ratings to go up or down from there. Yes, that would mean those few with thousands of post would start off with 5 stars, but I don't know that I would find that inappropriate.
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Still, seems a moot point now.
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As said before: in my next life. Still think that there are good discussions going on here. Hope that the two most important peope b and pc will continue posting here. There's quite a big posting gap...
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And more, but that's a discussion we've already had.
There was some really good 'yeast' here. Over the years - I 'lurked' for some time before becoming involved - a few solid contributors have faded out, but a solid core of [what was that word for an expert teacher, I just cannot picture it here anymore] combined with newer arrivals kept things interesting.
But the recent hits we've taken in participation concern me. Recovery seems at best problematic.
But wait; perhaps this is not so bad. At least forum members will still have a place to talk about things. Certainly that will be enough for most.
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But the recent hits we've taken in participation concern me.
The forum usage statistics suggest the reverse: before the upgrade, averaging 32 posts per day; since the upgrade, averaging 48 posts per day. That is a significant increase.
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That's because of all of the posts about the forum! :)
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But the recent hits we've taken in participation concern me.
The forum usage statistics suggest the reverse: before the upgrade, averaging 32 posts per day; since the upgrade, averaging 48 posts per day. That is a significant increase.
Well, that could bear your points out well.
It could also be related to all the other reasons for upgrading YABB. These include easing the SPAM issue, better searches, whatever.
Also, remember that the Bugs and Issues section was added. Though to be fair I doubt that section would account for the addition in posts.
So, we're back to the 'intimidation' point.
As I've said earlier, make of it what you will.
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One might also factor in the recent beta in the traffic volumes.
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Yes, that's part of what I was thinking, but you've clarified things nicely.
I still think Sparx' position has merit. And old Hank 5's point is valid here. This may be a users' forum, but it is Sparx' forum too. They have been exquisitely careful to let ideas evolve in the clear light of day. That alone makes this one of the prime discussion venues.
We kind of have to separate these things. Of course, how we define "separate" has an effect too. We may be in danger of losing one of the great strengths of this forum.
But again, this is my opinion only. I must stress something I learned as a child: I could be wrong.
David
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But the recent hits we've taken in participation concern me.
The forum usage statistics suggest the reverse: before the upgrade, averaging 32 posts per day; since the upgrade, averaging 48 posts per day. That is a significant increase.
If you count it as success that bruce has left the boat, you're right. One other reason for more posts: more bugs. Most of the posts deal with EAUI. I'm not so sure you've done yourself a favour with the introduction of this new board.