BPMN & Shallow Copy of diagram

[Paolo F Cantoni]

I haven't perused the BPMN 2.0 standard in a while, so I'm hoping more recent practitioners may be able to help.

I understood that BPMN diagram objects always belonged to the process diagram.  Thus, you needed to use a call activity to invoke a common sub-process.  You couldn't just copy the process onto another diagram and link to it.  Is that the correct understanding?

If so, wouldn't using shallow copies of diagrams be invalid under BPMN?  (Just asking for a friend )

TIA,
Paolo

[Geert Bellekens]

Yes, and Yes.

Almost everything in BPMN is owned by the process and should not be reused in other processes.

Exceptions are things like messages, PartnerRoles, Global Actions, etc...

But usually none of these things are used as a link on a BPMN diagram.

Geert

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Yes, and Yes.

Almost everything in BPMN is owned by the process and should not be reused in other processes.

Exceptions are things like messages, PartnerRoles, Global Actions, etc...

But usually, none of these things is used as a link on a BPMN diagram.

Geert

Thanks, Geert,
So should I report it as a defect?

Which of the remaining two types of diagram copy would be applicable?
I ask because we might have a template process that we might customise for various types of scenarios.  It would make sense to copy and paste and then change the item names to suit (given that they should be new copies of the original items).

Paolo

[Geert Bellekens]

Which of the remaining two types of diagram copy would be applicable?

Not sure, I guess a deep copy.

But the easiest way would be to copy the BPMN proces that owns the diagram.
That would copy all owned elements as well.

Geert

[wivel]

Hi Guys

I'm with Geert on this one. To save yourself from a world of pain when it comes to maintenance, always make sure that toe process owns everything. Think of it as the process being the context and everything that goes on in the process is valid only within the context of exactly that process. In other words, you should be able to delete a process without having to think of side effects, i.e. deleting elements used in other processes.

In a recent project, I took over a process library where almost everything had been reused. Pools, Lanes, Activities, you name it. It resulted in a model, where you couldn't touch anything without messing with one or more other processes. It was so entangled, that we started from scratch instead of trying to untangle the mess.

If you keep everything within the process boundary, you have no need for copying diagrams. Copy the process and the rest will follow. I have never had much luck with deep copying BPMN 2.0 diagrams.

Henrik

[Eve]

So should I report it as a defect?

I would expect that the answer will be that although EA does prompt to encourage users to create the appropriate structure, it doesn't enforce that. There are enough users that are just creating diagrams that EA can't enforce those constraints.

Which of the remaining two types of diagram copy would be applicable?

For the parent process in the browser, select Copy > Full Structure for Duplication from the context menu.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

So should I report it as a defect?

I would expect that the answer will be that although EA does prompt to encourage users to create the appropriate structure, it doesn't enforce that. There are enough users that are just creating diagrams that EA can't enforce those constraints.

Which of the remaining two types of diagram copy would be applicable?

For the parent process in the browser, select Copy > Full Structure for Duplication from the context menu.

Thanks, Eve,

Following all the input, I'd come to the same conclusion.  Does the documentation cover this and suggest the correct way to do it?

Paolo

[Eve]

Does the documentation cover this and suggest the correct way to do it?

I don't think there's anywhere that covers language specific guidance on how to duplicate a structure or diagram. I doubt most modellers would see it even if it was in the documentation.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Does the documentation cover this and suggest the correct way to do it?

I don't think there's anywhere that covers language-specific guidance on how to duplicate a structure or diagram. I doubt most modellers would see it even if it was in the documentation.

Modellers never read the documentation, so why provide it?

Paolo

[Takeshi K]

They never read the documentation in advance, but when there is a problem, they always say, 'Where does it say that?', at least in Japan

[Paolo F Cantoni]

They never read the documentation in advance, but when there is a problem, they always say, 'Where does it say that?', at least in Japan

That was my point, Takeshi-san!

Paolo