Element location of element when copied to diagram

[Stephan Dankers - work]

Hi,

is there any logic or rule for the location, when I copy an element in a diagram (e.g. via Ctrl-C) and paste the same element into a different diagram via (e.g. via Ctrl-V)?

It seems EA is placing it randomly somewhere on the new diagram. Especially if you have a large diagram and zoomed in, this can be very annoying. You need to scroll or zoom out to find the pasted element.

It would nice to have a dedicated location for it (e.g. top left).
Is there a way to do it?

Thanks and regards
Stephan Dankers

[Uffe]

Hi Stephan,

EA places the pasted element in the same location it had in the old diagram (with some small offset). Zoom and pan are not taken into consideration, so if you're in different pan/zoom in the two diagrams, you often find the pasted element is outside the visible part of the diagram.

I am not aware of any settings or options that affect this.

Cheers,


/Uffe

[Geert Bellekens]

Stephan,

It's not random. The copied element gets the same location as the original element.
Working with large diagrams like this is indeed a pain.
(my solution -> don't work with large diagrams )

What you can do is instead of copy/past you first select it in the project browser (ALT-G) and then drag it from the project browser onto your new diagram.
That is of course less obvious when you want to copy many elements.

Geert

[Uffe]

You should also note that if you've moved the element in the original diagram and haven't saved it, the element will be placed in the last saved location, not the current one, in the new diagram.

So save the original diagram before you copy things out of it.

/U

[Eve]

The other thing you can do is right click and select paste. In that situation EA has a bit more information about where you want to paste and places the element(s) relative to the right click location.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

The other thing you can do is right click and select paste. In that situation EA has a bit more information about where you want to paste and places the element(s) relative to the right click location.

Now THAT's good to know!  Thanks Simon!

Paolo

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Now THAT's good to know!  Thanks Simon!

Paolo

What's not so good is that the keyboard shortcut doesn't work the same way as the menu item.

I view this as a bug.   What do others think?
Paolo

[qwerty]

If so: EAUI. It won't be fixed anyway.

q.

[Uffe]

Now THAT's good to know!  Thanks Simon!

Paolo

What's not so good is that the keyboard shortcut doesn't work the same way as the menu item.

I view this as a bug.   What do others think?
Paolo

I don't actually. Pasting works differently with keyboard and mouse in Word too. The difference is that there's no cursor in a diagram.

With text editors (I mean in general now, ie Word, Notepad etc) there are two cursors involved, the text cursor and the mouse cursor. So when you just press Ctrl-V the text is pasted into the current location of the text cursor. When you right-click and select paste the mouse cursor location is used.

However, there is no "diagram cursor". So the choice that's been made is to copy the location from the old diagram on Ctrl-V, rather than use the mouse cursor location.

There are other options: always paste into a default location, or disallow Ctrl-V altogether because it can't work as it does in Word.

I'm fine with the choice that's been made, you and others may not be, but I wouldn't consider it a bug.


/Uffe

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Now THAT's good to know!  Thanks Simon!

Paolo

What's not so good is that the keyboard shortcut doesn't work the same way as the menu item.

I view this as a bug.   What do others think?
Paolo

I don't actually. Pasting works differently with keyboard and mouse in Word too. The difference is that there's no cursor in a diagram.

With text editors (I mean in general now, ie Word, Notepad etc) there are two cursors involved, the text cursor and the mouse cursor. So when you just press Ctrl-V the text is pasted into the current location of the text cursor. When you right-click and select paste the mouse cursor location is used.

However, there is no "diagram cursor". So the choice that's been made is to copy the location from the old diagram on Ctrl-V, rather than use the mouse cursor location.

There are other options: always paste into a default location, or disallow Ctrl-V altogether because it can't work as it does in Word.

I'm fine with the choice that's been made, you and others may not be, but I wouldn't consider it a bug.


/Uffe

I was in two minds about the functionality.  I finally took the view that if the right-click provides a "diagram cursor" - which I would argue it does - then the last mouse click (whether left, right or middle) since I performed the copy/cut should constitute the "cursor".  You don't have to hit the keyboard shortcut until you've clicked in the right place..  In fact, to extend your analogy further, you only press paste when you've located where you want to place the contents...

As someone (not a million miles from here), once said...
Concistency, konsistency, consistensy! ^TM_{Uffe - after Paolo}  

But as I said, I was in two minds.  I'm not suggesting it's easy to implement, just to get the design mind working properly.

Paolo

[Eve]

which I would argue it does - then the last mouse click (whether left, right or middle) since I performed the copy/cut should constitute the "cursor".

Obviously this comes down to your opinion. The problem with that analogy is that the cursor is not visible. Using that behavior may often result in a paste occurring where the user attention is, but when it went wrong I think it would be more confusing than the current behavior.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

which I would argue it does - then the last mouse click (whether left, right or middle) since I performed the copy/cut should constitute the "cursor".

Obviously this comes down to your opinion.

Indeed.  I'm also using this to explore my own thought processes and arguments.

The problem with that analogy is that the cursor is not visible. Using that behaviour may often result in a paste occurring where the user attention is, but when it went wrong I think it would be more confusing than the current behaviour.

Technically, the cursor isn't visible in the current behaviour.  And even when I paste with a cursor (line in an editor), I generally want to paste where my attention is but the cursor hasn't moved there so it doesn't paste where I'm expecting it.

I think if the functionality was actually implemented and Roy did his usual job of very clearly describing the behaviour it would work out better than currently losing stuff off-page.

I deal with real (but often confused) users who are NOT Sparx experts.  I submit that the existing functionality is more confusing than "Attention based pasting"^TM.    My Opinion, of course - but with some objective evidence.

Paolo

[skiwi]

Obviously this comes down to your opinion. The problem with that analogy is that the cursor is not visible. Using that behavior may often result in a paste occurring where the user attention is, but when it went wrong I think it would be more confusing than the current behavior.

My opinion is that if the Edit menu is used to paste the paste should occur within the viewport (i.e. the part of the window currently visible).
I have pasted from large diagrams (e.g. data models generated and laid out by EA) to a single A4 diagarm to discover the entity is multiple A3 pages away.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

My opinion is that if the Edit menu is used to paste the paste should occur within the viewport (i.e. the part of the window currently visible).
I have pasted from large diagrams (e.g. data models generated and laid out by EA) to a single A4 diagarm to discover the entity is multiple A3 pages away.

+10 - this happens often when you have "comprehensive diagrams" (in the real world).
I can cope with it.  It VERY annoying, but at least I understand what's happening.  My users, on the other hand - who aren't inclined to model in the first place, are VERY confused...

This is an example of the Agile Manifesto's "Prefer working program to documentation".  It doesn't matter how much documentation you provide to something the doesn't "Work", it still doesn't work...

Paolo