Archimate shapes and composition

[matthew.james]

Is there any way to represent the 'box in box' style of composition using archimate in Sparx ? (see picture linked below)
http://pubs.opengroup.org/architecture/archimate3-doc/ts_archimate_3.0.1-final-rev_files/image034.png

I'm looking for the same behavior as provided with the UML elements using composite child diagrams and 'show composite in frame'.  From what I can see all the options and menu items are there for archimate elements and diagrams but they just don't work. I've read several other posts around this and discussion of compartments (which seem to be core to support this feature) and I get that archimate is not UML, however this is standard archimate representation.  Even if it could be achieved with the 'grouping' element that would be a start.

Any suggestions?
Note I am on Enterprise Architect v12 and using Archimate 2.0 - does any of the above change with newer version of EA and / or archimate 3.0 ?

Thanks
Matthew James

[Glassboy]

I'm not sure what the problem is you are describing.  You can put one business function inside another using EA's ArchiMate 2 MDG.  You certainly wouldn't want a compartment (which is not part of the ArchiMate standard).

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Hi Matthew,

If you search for "Visual Embedding" you might find some interesting discussions.

HTH,
Paolo

[matthew.james]

I'm not sure what the problem is you are describing.  You can put one business function inside another using EA's ArchiMate 2 MDG.  You certainly wouldn't want a compartment (which is not part of the ArchiMate standard).

The problem I am describing is "make show composite diagram" features work for archimate shapes so that I can have a shape on a diagram showing the underlying diagram in place.  The mention of compartment is only on the basis that this seems to be the mechanism Sparx uses to enable this capability, so you can turn these features on for archimate shapes but they just don't do anything. (took me a while to figure out why)
Why ?  Because while I can put a business function inside another on a diagram, and this is reflected in the project hierarchy, if I add that parent to another diagram there seems to be no way to show or expand that to show the composed (internal / child) elements.

[matthew.james]

If you search for "Visual Embedding" you might find some interesting discussions.

Thanks for the suggestions - I just tried that and it only found this post (!).  However I did find a variety of similar posts when I was looking the other day, many of them with your name all over the Paolo  .  From those I gathered that people are solving this by customizing their own archimate style libraries, something I'd prefer not to do.
For the moment I have worked around this be using basic UML classes as grouping containers which gives me a basic capability.

[Glassboy]

The problem I am describing is "make show composite diagram" features work for archimate shapes so that I can have a shape on a diagram showing the underlying diagram in place.

Step 1:  Right click on the element.  New Child Diagram | Add Diagram
Step 2:  Rick click on element again.  New Child Diagram | Composite Structure Diagram

or create a diagram and drag it under the element you want it to be the composite structure diagram for.

Neither of these is the visual embedding that you linked to the TOGAF site, and I'm still totally confused how you got to compartments for composite structure diagrams.

[Nizam]

If you search for "Visual Embedding" you might find some interesting discussions.

Thanks for the suggestions - I just tried that and it only found this post (!).  However I did find a variety of similar posts when I was looking the other day, many of them with your name all over the Paolo  .  From those I gathered that people are solving this by customizing their own archimate style libraries, something I'd prefer not to do.
For the moment I have worked around this be using basic UML classes as grouping containers which gives me a basic capability.

You are right, the stereotype isn't handling the 'Show Composite Diagram in Frame / Compartment' options, removing the Stereotype displays it though, but that defeats the purpose (it becomes a normal activity).
Defining shapescripts is the only option

But!, you can try this as a work around.
Drag and drop the child diagram as a Diagram Frame and place it inside the object in the diagram (parent object/diagram).

Something like below


https://pasteboard.co/Hktyhin.png

[Glassboy]

You are right, the stereotype isn't handling the 'Show Composite Diagram in Frame / Compartment' options, removing the Stereotype displays it though, but that defeats the purpose (it becomes a normal activity).

Ahhh that's what he meant :-)

[matthew.james]

Ahhh that's what he meant :-)

Yep - that's what I meant.  Sorry if that wasn't coming across.  Nizam described it better, the options are disabled / ignored by the Archimate stereotypes - my comment re compartments was based on my inference that the lack of compartments is what breaks this feature.

[matthew.james]

But!, you can try this as a work around.
Drag and drop the child diagram as a Diagram Frame and place it inside the object in the diagram (parent object/diagram).

Thanks for suggestion Nizam.  That does work visually - looks virtually the same as if the 'show composite diagram in frame' option.
However it is purely visual, on the current diagram, not linked to the model.  If I put the same parent element on a different diagram there is no visual indication that it has a child diagram - no composite element icon in the bottom right of the element (although double clicking does still open that diagram), and if I want to show the expanded view I need to manually add the child diagram frame again.

All this is doable and probably enough to meet my current needs, however it does mean that the archimate shape are somewhat crippled.  I agree with Glassboy that compartments shouldn't be added as they're not part of the spec, however I don't see why the basic composite element features should be broken for archimate shapes -  they should show composite element icon and 'show composite diagram in frame' should work

[Nizam]

Agreed, this is just a workaround and not an ideal solution. Might be worth submitting a feature request.

[Glassboy]

Agreed, this is just a workaround and not an ideal solution. Might be worth submitting a feature request.

A feature request to implement features not in the ArchiMate notation?

[Nizam]

Agreed, this is just a workaround and not an ideal solution. Might be worth submitting a feature request.

A feature request to implement features not in the ArchiMate notation?

http://pubs.opengroup.org/architecture/archimate3-doc/ts_archimate_3.0.1-final-rev_files/image034.png
Isn't this something ArchiMate 3 prescribes?
May be i'm wrong

[Glassboy]

Isn't this something ArchiMate 3 prescribes?
May be i'm wrong

The ArchiMate notation has visual embedding, which EA already supports.  ArchiMate does not have compartments.  EA's ArchiMate is already too UMLised as it is.

[Nizam]

Isn't this something ArchiMate 3 prescribes?
Maybe I'm wrong

The ArchiMate notation has visual embedding, which EA already supports.  ArchiMate does not have compartments.  EA's ArchiMate is already too UMLised as it is.

The visual composition option is also disabled for 'ArchiMate' yes manually placing them is an option, but when there is a provision, was wondering it should be usable.

And yes, Agree with UMLized and we go above and beyond to make clients feel otherwise