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Author Topic: Where did "instance" go?  (Read 361155 times)

Richard Freggi

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2019, 11:17:47 am »
It is my understanding that Archimate does not have a robust+carefully thought out metamodel like UML does (someone correct me if I'm wrong).  So my thinking is that a lot is let to interpretation.

Modesto Vega

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2019, 03:22:55 am »

So according to the https://www.philosophybasics.com/movements_pragmatism.html school, a thing is true if it works.  And it worked in the previous version.
Once upon a time there was a very accurate heliocentric astronomical prediction model that used the concepts of nested spheres and epicycles to predict the movement of celestial bodies. For centuries it was “true”, and it took centuries of observations to find it inaccurate.

Because something was “true”, it doesn’t have to be “true” now. Likewise because you could do it in v13 doesn’t mean it was correct, “true”. If we adopt that mindset we will never have progress, in general, and technological progress, in particular; we will still be stuck with punch cards and mechanical computers.

It's clear that ArchiMate - as it so often does - uses the common English meaning;  instance (basically a thing) not the computer science meaning - a thing that can be created through instantiation.  One should never forget that ArchiMate is created by a committee of marketers who still fondly remember floppies and mainframes.
My argument is that if ArchiMate uses the common meaning of instance, it is inappropriate to use the computing science meaning of instance. Using the computing science meaning just confuses matters.

Also the example of switches, do they have the same set of Technology Functions.  Well no if only one of them has PoE.  Therefor they are not the same node/device.  Nor are they realized from the same node/device.  Might they both serve they same Technology Service, yes they might.

Does any of the discussion about switches using the definite or indefinite article belong in ArchiMate, No!  Could we model this as a [computer science] ontology using a UML class diagram, why yes we can.
Considering that not all switches have the same technology functions, a proper ontology model using a UML class diagram may be required depending, of course, on the modelling problem at hand - if all switches in the modelling scope are POE, this may not be required.

Rhys Lewis 2

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2019, 07:28:01 am »

So according to the https://www.philosophybasics.com/movements_pragmatism.html school, a thing is true if it works.  And it worked in the previous version.
Once upon a time there was a very accurate heliocentric astronomical prediction model that used the concepts of nested spheres and epicycles to predict the movement of celestial bodies. For centuries it was “true”, and it took centuries of observations to find it inaccurate.

Because something was “true”, it doesn’t have to be “true” now. Likewise because you could do it in v13 doesn’t mean it was correct, “true”. If we adopt that mindset we will never have progress, in general, and technological progress, in particular; we will still be stuck with punch cards and mechanical computers.

When you are at the "normal science" part of the Kuhn cycle it is easy to look back at previous paradigms and imagine that this time we have it right.  Pragmatism says that there is only true "now".  Taken from the frame of reference of v.13, it was true at that moment.  v.15 is seeking to establish a new truth that is merely a misguided novelty.

I would also hesitate to throw stones at people who could literally hold their code in their hands, while we melt the Arctic by running billions of copies of the same flawed anti-malware code.  "Progress" is really just having to buy a more expensive CPU-GPU combination because someone in an ad agency decided that a more complex 3D rendering looks pretty.  I'm still just typing into a box on a screen.

Perhaps I would accept that progress had occurred if each day did not bring news of young people stampeding to the latest JS library over the lifeless bodies of those who try to say with their last breath, "but there's no testing framework for it yet".
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 08:37:41 am by rhyslewispoal »

Eve

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2019, 11:26:31 am »
literally hold their code in their hands
*twitch*  :-X

When you are at the "normal science" part of the Kuhn cycle it is easy to look back at previous paradigms and imagine that this time we have it right.  Pragmatism says that there is only true "now".  Taken from the frame of reference of v.13, it was true at that moment.  v.15 is seeking to establish a new truth that is merely a misguided novelty.
What makes the v13 truth valid but the v15 truth become novelty?

The v13 behavior took an ArchiMate construct and created a UML one out of it. By changing the behavior of the drop to prevent that EA helps to assist the integrity of the model. It's still possible to create a UML Object explicitly, then set the classifier to the ArchiMate type. But at least if someone does that they know what they are doing.

Another possibility in v15 is to create your own profile containing one or more stereotypes extending Object. If you then add a metarelationship { umlRole=classifier } to ArchiMate3::ArchiMate_Node, your stereotype will show up as an option when dropping an ArchiMate Node from the Project Browser.

Here's XMI for a sample profile that does exactly that. Just import it into your project, select the package and select Specialize > Technologies > Publish-Tech > Import Package as UML Profile.

Code: [Select]
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« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 11:29:27 am by Eve »

Modesto Vega

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2019, 03:57:46 pm »
Firstly my reply contained a factual inaccuracy nobody has picked: the said astronomical prediction model was indeed geocentric and not heliocentric. Whether, it was a intentional or accidental mistake, I you decide but I find very interesting that nobody spot it, it seems that it could more important to be “right” than inaccurate.

There are plenty of “negationists” around who believe that the melting of the ice caps is natural and not human made, this is despite the prevalent view of science. For those people burning fossil fuels is fine.

Thankfully, the topic under discussion is not so serious. But it shows a not very similar frame of mind: if I could do it, it couldn’t be wrong and, therefore, I should continue doing it.

I think Eve is right, modelling has to be semantically and lexically correct and consistent and with v15 it is.

I’ll rather have a version of Sparx which allows me to create more correct and consistent models. But that is just a professional preference.


Eve

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2019, 04:43:14 pm »
Firstly my reply contained a factual inaccuracy nobody has picked: the said astronomical prediction model was indeed geocentric and not heliocentric. Whether, it was a intentional or accidental mistake, I you decide but I find very interesting that nobody spot it, it seems that it could more important to be “right” than inaccurate.
Honestly, I skimmed it and summarized as "old thing was good until it was demonstrated to be bad". Even if I looked at it in detail I wouldn't know without looking it up what geocentric or heliocentric are, let alone what the prediction model you were referring to was.

Modesto Vega

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2019, 06:14:28 pm »
Firstly my reply contained a factual inaccuracy nobody has picked: the said astronomical prediction model was indeed geocentric and not heliocentric. Whether, it was a intentional or accidental mistake, I you decide but I find very interesting that nobody spot it, it seems that it could more important to be “right” than inaccurate.
Honestly, I skimmed it and summarized as "old thing was good until it was demonstrated to be bad". Even if I looked at it in detail I wouldn't know without looking it up what geocentric or heliocentric are, let alone what the prediction model you were referring to was.
No worries  :), "old thing was good until it was demonstrated to be bad" is a good summary. To which I would add, continuing to do something that was "good" and "demonstrated bad" is a bad habit, a habit which may be better to overcome.

Rhys Lewis 2

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2019, 07:34:27 am »
Firstly my reply contained a factual inaccuracy nobody has picked: the said astronomical prediction model was indeed geocentric and not heliocentric. Whether, it was a intentional or accidental mistake, I you decide but I find very interesting that nobody spot it, it seems that it could more important to be “right” than inaccurate.
Honestly, I skimmed it and summarized as "old thing was good until it was demonstrated to be bad". Even if I looked at it in detail I wouldn't know without looking it up what geocentric or heliocentric are, let alone what the prediction model you were referring to was.
No worries  :), "old thing was good until it was demonstrated to be bad" is a good summary. To which I would add, continuing to do something that was "good" and "demonstrated bad" is a bad habit, a habit which may be better to overcome.

The deconstructionists would love that.  Meaning and language were literally dissociated, and yet everyone was left with the feeling of communication as if it had occurred.

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2019, 08:35:14 am »
[SNIP]

The deconstructionists would love that.  Meaning and language were literally dissociated, and yet everyone was left with the feeling of communication as if it had occurred.
Isn't that always the case with metaphors etc?

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Rhys Lewis 2

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2019, 09:11:20 am »

The deconstructionists would love that.  Meaning and language were literally dissociated, and yet everyone was left with the feeling of communication as if it had occurred.
Isn't that always the case with metaphors etc?

Paolo

The difference is authorial intent.  If the intent was to reference geocentrism but the speech act referenced heliocentrism, then it's malapropism, not metaphor.

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2019, 09:35:52 am »

The deconstructionists would love that.  Meaning and language were literally dissociated, and yet everyone was left with the feeling of communication as if it had occurred.
Isn't that always the case with metaphors etc?

Paolo
The difference is authorial intent.  If the intent was to reference geocentrism but the speech act referenced heliocentrism, then it's malapropism, not metaphor.
Ah...  You're speaking about the specific instance (pun intended) whereas I was talking about the classifier.  Agreed! Maybe we could say it was a malpropistic metaphor. ;)

Paolo
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Rhys Lewis 2

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2019, 09:46:30 am »
I've started using "Child (Generalization)" instead of "Instance", and the sky hasn't fallen.  I'm going to miss being able to navigate easily between the thing and the parent/classifier, but I have to accept that this is bigger than I am.

RoyC

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2019, 09:59:03 am »
"... but I have to accept that this is bigger than I am."

So.... you have set aside your rhyslewispoalcentric model?   Oh I'm sorry, I couldn't resist it!
Best Regards, Roy

Rhys Lewis 2

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2019, 10:01:45 am »
"... but I have to accept that this is bigger than I am."

So.... you have set aside your rhyslewispoalcentric model?   Oh I'm sorry, I couldn't resist it!

Yes, it was true for a time ;-)

Paolo F Cantoni

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Re: Where did "instance" go?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2019, 10:02:39 am »
I've started using "Child (Generalization)" instead of "Instance", and the sky hasn't fallen.  I'm going to miss being able to navigate easily between the thing and the parent/classifier, but I have to accept that this is bigger than I am.
While the child inherits stuff from its parent.  We often (colloquially) use the concept of parent-child when talking about meronymies.  So for me, that's not precise enough.  For inheritance I use "inheritor".

Paolo
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