Select All - visually embedded

[Paolo F Cantoni]

As may be inferred from some recent postings, we are starting to use Boundaries/Groupings in a big way.

Because of the way EA handles selection, it can be difficult for new (or infrequent) users to select a set of visually embedded objects within another, encompassing, object.

One user asked if I could request the ability to select an object with a set of other, visually embedded objects within it and get EA to automatically select that set.

Before I submit a formal feature request, I thought I'd check what other users thought.  There are some mechanisms one can use to mitigate the selection problem, but it seems to me that this is a legitimate request anyway.

TIA,
Paolo

[qwerty]

Are you using that large embeddings that they stretch screen boundary? Dragging a frame would else do the job with no issue.

q.

[Glassboy]

Can you explain the difficulty please?  I've never seen anyone have any problem dragging a selection box over any number of embedded or overlaid elements.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

I don't have the exact diagram in front of me, and I admit I hadn't really thought about it much before - perhaps I'm too used to EAUI.  It may also be related to the use of (currently) boundary objects.

So, from memory, if you have a number of layers of boundary objects showing, sets (of objects) within sets; when you try to drag across a number of the embedded objects, you can't - because EA grabs the first click of the drag and selects the background boundary object.  The only way to make it work is to make the boundary unselectable, then EA doesn't absorb the click and you can successfully drag across the multiples.

HTH,
Paolo

[Glassboy]

Sot you're starting within an element and trying to select a subset of elements within its confines?

That sounds like when I have to determine whether my son has needlessly put his school jersey into a pile of dirty washing :-)

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Sot you're starting within an element and trying to select a subset of elements within its confines?

That sounds like when I have to determine whether my son has needlessly put his school jersey into a pile of dirty washing :-)

Yes, I think so.  What will users think of next?

As I said, we old-timers automatically tend not to try this, but as I said earlier, it seems a reasonable request.

Paolo

[Eve]

I'm still not sure what your request is.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

I'm still not sure what your request is.

Given a set of diagram objects, visually embedded within another diagram object; select the encompassing object and provide a context menu that says:  Select encompassed objects.   This would unselect the encompassing object, and select the encompassed objects.

Paolo

[Glassboy]

I'm still not sure what your request is.

I don't think what Paolo is suggesting is the solution to his problem.  I think this is another problem better solved with layers.  Paolo's user wants to be able to select a bunch of elements without selecting all the other elements they have heaped into their z-order.  If EA had layers like a CAD program you could separate the big smelly heap into nice segments that you could operate on productively.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

I'm still not sure what your request is.

I don't think what Paolo is suggesting is the solution to his problem.  I think this is another problem better solved with layers.  Paolo's user wants to be able to select a bunch of elements without selecting all the other elements they have heaped into their z-order.  If EA had layers like a CAD program you could separate the big smelly heap into nice segments that you could operate on productively.

Yes Layers would help, but the problem is more generic, surely:

"Given a set of diagram objects (in the same or different layer), visually embedded within another diagram object; select the encompassing object and provide a context menu that says:  Select encompassed objects.   This would unselect the encompassing object, and select the encompassed objects (regardless of the layer they were in)."

It's about what the user sees (and how they react).  The user in question comments that:  "If I grab the encompassing object and move it, the encompassed objects move with it.  So there's an implied relationship between them. I just want to use it to make life easier.  It's a consistency issue"  (and I didn't prompt him on the latter!) 

Paolo

[Glassboy]

Yes Layers would help, but the problem is more generic, surely:

"Given a set of diagram objects (in the same or different layer), visually embedded within another diagram object; select the encompassing object and provide a context menu that says:  Select encompassed objects.   This would unselect the encompassing object, and select the encompassed objects (regardless of the layer they were in)."

It's about what the user sees (and how they react).  The user in question comments that:  "If I grab the encompassing object and move it, the encompassed objects move with it.  So there's an implied relationship between them. I just want to use it to make life easier.  It's a consistency issue"  (and I didn't prompt him on the latter!) 

I don't think it is more generic.  Once you have separated the heap into layers normal selection tools will work for you.  You will be able to drag a selection frame around the nest and the nested objects.  You should be able to toggle layers to view only and exempt them from the selection process.

[Eve]

Personally, I'd write a script in a diagram category to do what you need Paolo. Loop over the diagramobjects and select them to selected if they are contained in the previously selected object.

[Paolo F Cantoni]

Personally, I'd write a script in a diagram category to do what you need Paolo. Loop over the diagramobjects and select them to selected if they are contained in the previously selected object.

The number of clicks required to activate the script for the user and the time required to develop aren't worth it.  There are other measures we can take  to mitigate the problem.

It's just that EA already knows how to figure out the encompassing and encompassed objects so, it would be less effort to develop. 

Is it worth a feature request?

Paolo

[qwerty]

The number of clicks required to activate the script for the user and the time required to develop aren't worth it.

For an add-in it's a right click and a 2-level navigation in a menu. You need to do that for almost any operation. (I guess that kbd-shortcuts are still not available for user add-ins/scripts?)

q.

[skiwi]

I'm with Paulo on this.

In some way <solution mode>e.g. selection with RMB</solution mode> the selection rectangle would not include elements that contain the starting point of the selection.

+1